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Thread: Botusing

  1. #1
    Erfahrener Benutzer
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    Botusing

    Hallo
    Ich find das man das Botusing reduzieren sollte. Z.B. durch außer Funktion setzen der Zufallstaste, und eine maximale Übernahme von 1 oder 2 Bots.
    Zeige einem schlauen Menschen einen Fehler und er wird sich bedanken.
    Zeige einem dummen Menschen einen Fehler und er wird dich beleidigen.

  2. #2
    Super-Moderator Creeper's Avatar
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    Ich auch

  3. #3
    Gesperrt
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    Grundsätzlich bin ich für die Möglichkeit der Übernahme der Bots, egal welche Karte, Premium-Spieler oder nicht. Aber das ungehemmte Ausnutzen dieser Möglichkeit sollte verhindert werden. Es stimmt die ganze Team-Verteilung nicht mehr. Aus einem 4 vs 4 wird dann ein 10 oder 12 vs 4 oder noch schlimmeres. Da verliert jeder den Spaß am Spiel und geht.

    Mein Vorschlag wäre:
    a) pro Runde je Person eine Bot-Übernahme, mehr nicht, das reicht vollkommen aus
    b) die Übernahme eines Bots erst nach 7 Sekunden
    c) nicht eine zufällige Übernahme von einem Bot mittels Taste „Sofort-Übernahme“, sondern es sollte ein gezieltes Auswählen erforderlich sein

    Für "Rumgeballere" gibt es die DM-Server oder auch andere Spiele.

  4. #4
    Erfahrener Benutzer Seth's Avatar
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    Ich wäre auch dafür, dass die Übernahme von Bots auf mindestens 1-2 mal pro Runde beschränkt wird. Ich finde es ziemlich nervig, wenn man denselben Spieler 4-5 mal pro Runde tötet und dann beim 6. mal selber gekillt wird, weil der Typ auf einmal hinter einem steht oder man grade nachlädt.

    Sowas Ähnliches hatte Njal ja auch im Karl Stromberg Thread vorgeschlagen, wäre also durchaus eine Überlegung wert. Der Großteil der Spieler würde eine solche Änderung sicherlich begrüßen.

  5. #5
    Benutzer MrNugget's Avatar
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    I agree, limit bot take over.

  6. #6
    Erfahrener Benutzer ZenTiac's Avatar
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    @tF How hard would it be to make this happen?
    I think this would value add to the already fun servers. I also would very much like re spawn as bot limited to 2 per round in Counter Strike Source.
    Also I do not think anyone should need to use Direct x 8 anymore so if the server could enforce DX9
    PLEASE we can kill the smoke bug at the same time. We would all be very grateful if this can be done.

    Regards
    ZenTi
    Last edited by ZenTiac; 26.08.2020 at 09:19. Reason: spelling error

  7. #7
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    Hey there

    A Clanmate told me about this thread. This is an issue which has been bothering me for a long time now. After all, there are a few sides to it. I'll try to look at both sides a little and then will give my opinion...

    On one side, the hole discussion goes into a similar direction like the premium features. One could argue, that if you don't like the botusing just go to another server. Plus, the chances are equal for everyone. It doesn't matter if you are premium or not, every player can choose to use a bot or not. On top of that, premium player do not get any of their usual benefits while using a bot (except for hp farming in case they have nades). Additionally, it is arguable to just have to wait until the round ends while looking at the nerve wrecking engine that drives the bots walking around like freaking loonatics or seeing them getting stuck on some god damn beer can.

    On the other hand, Counter Strike is a round based shooter. One doesn't have to be a genius to recognize the issue many players have with the botusing. If you die in a round, you wait for the next one. Same story in everey freaking round based shooter there is. I've heard arguments (on server) that why not use the feature if it's there...? Fair enough. I'll comment on that in the section with my opinion. Despite the fact, that using a bot gives you a 20% dmg penalty (if i remember correctly) I is mostly used for revenge of people with inferior skill (or at least they try ;P ) using 4 bots just to get that one player down.
    On top of that, although this has been said before, the botusing can make a 4 vs. 4 to a 12 vs. 4. Which subsequently makes the autobalancing a complete joke (which it already is, because a lot of premium players simply use it to constantly join the winning team - but thats a different [pathetic] story.).

    I personally think that the botusing is often happening in a very exzessive way. There are players who easily use 4 bots per round. It might be because they don't want to wait for the round to end without them playing or for the reason that they get revenge. I myself get pissed of by botusers because in most cases it's happening in already unbalanced teams and then the winning team or the team that already has more players uses tons of bots. It happens to me quite frequently, that I'm in the team with fewer real players because I always join LT, that I'm up against a bigger number of players which then use 2,3 bots each to get back at me.
    Before I adressed the opinion that one could go and play on another server just like with premium if that player is bothered too much by the botusing. Yet a lot of premiums play on the saigns servers for the sheer fact, that they have these specific features. I highly doubt, that those players would quit playing on saigns just because they cant use bots any longer. So if we would give some credit to the saying "money talks" the botusing would have to end. Now.
    I think that the fact that CS is a round based shooter should be enough to at least consider changing something about this.

    Now I know, there cannot and won't be a radical solution to this. After all, life's not black and white. There are shades of (dorian :P) grey inbetween. So here's my suggestion in 2 versions:

    A) The botusing gets limited to 1 bot per round for everyone - premium and not-paying players.
    B) Botuser get a significant dmg-penalty for every bot they use. (e.g. first bot 20% / second bot 40% / 3rd bot 80%) > it has to bee a real penalty... nut just an expression. So that the people have the choice but the chances of success decrease significantly.

    Kindly Chuck

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenTiac View Post
    Also I do not think anyone should need to use Direct x 8 anymore so if the server could enforce DX9
    PLEASE we can kill the smoke bug at the same time. We would all be very grateful if this can be done.
    I think you definitely got a point there. At some time in the past, premium players had 5 (if i remember correctly), 5 freaking smoke nades per round. Even now, premium players get, i think, 2 smoked per round. So in order to make the game fair this would have to go down to 1. After all, using the smoke bug is to a part caused by the fact, that there is too much smoke spamming on a lot of maps. At the times when premiums had 5 smokes, it was simply impossible to play some maps in a fair manner. Imagine Assault with 6 premiums having as many smokes. That would take an entire freaking round for the smoke to clear at the front door. Even with six premiums having only 2 smokes they can practically smoke the front door on assault for an entire round.
    So to make things fair and square, everyone should only have 1 smoke. This would reduce the amount of players who use nvidia bug. After all, the increased number of players is (at least in some cases) also a response to that smoke spamming to make some maps playable...radar, infinite ammo and smoke are a perfect excuse for a lot of half skilled players to just shoot around like fucking spraycans...

    (Also, if we start to tackle some of the means here... why don't we change the infinite ammo clause... Imagine a world were para, p90 and autosniper-users cannot spray around like freaking lunatics just becaus... well they can.. because... infinite ammo.. fuck aiming...)

    (... or you guys could prohibit it to stalk players on servers. It happens to me many times, that there are some people who keep switching to my team - even if i myself switch every round in order to balance teams... an yet the WTJ keeps following me...
    After all, I had the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that any action is prohibited that aims at reducing the fun of another player ... something like that... so why not make a specific rule that prohibits on-server stalking... since stalking from server to server is not allowed if i remember correctly. There is a lack of continuacy there... I mean why bothering with people who change their names often but then again it is allowed to grind others gears by server-stalking)

    Chuck
    Last edited by MightyLeChuck; 03.09.2020 at 17:31.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenTiac View Post
    Also I do not think anyone should need to use Direct x 8 anymore so if the server could enforce DX9
    PLEASE we can kill the smoke bug at the same time. We would all be very grateful if this can be done.

    Regards
    ZenTi
    This has been asked previously and many times (including by myself) but falls on deaf ears :( :(

    The smoke exploit is very, very easy to set up, I know for a fact many players now use it...it becomes irritating and you either join the masses and use it or have a distinct disadvantage.

    I even suggested removing all smoke nades from Assault but, again, was disappointed with the "email the owner" response....

    BOT using can be a pain, but, what happens if you don't allow it and the actual "players" in game die...do we sit and watch BOTS kill one another....no answer is perfect :(

    But I agree, limit BOT takeover to one bot per round would be great :) :)
    Last edited by SCOTRob; 09.09.2020 at 15:51.

  10. #10
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    ja, das kann passieren

    BOT using can be a pain, but, what happens if you don't allow it and the actual "players" in game die...do we sit and watch BOTS kill one another....no answer is perfect :(

    But I agree, limit BOT takeover to one bot per round would be great :) :)[/QUOTE]

    Ja, das kann passieren.
    Falls ein Extrem-Bot-User nach der ersten Bot-Übernahme keine zweite Möglichkeit hätte und im Extremfall zwei Spiele zum BOT-Zuschauen für 2:30 verbannt wären, bleiben immer noch zwei Möglichkeiten:
    a) ZEN (zuschauen, entspannen, nachdenken) und aus dem Vorangegangenen lernen und bei der nächsten Runde anders gestalten
    b) re-Join über die Console mit "retry" und sofort wieder Bot übernehmen

    Aus meiner Sicht ist bringt das dem Spiel vielmehr, als ein Bot1, Bot2, Bot3 etc. Yipeh, endlich nach dem Bot 30 in zigfach Runden: endlich habe ich den Frag geschafft.
    Als Hinweis zum Standard des Spiels: grundsätzlich gibt es KEINE Bots im Spiel, wenn abgeschossen, dann zuschauen. PUNKT

    Die Aushebelung auf saigns.de mit der Möglichkeit der Übernahme von Bots finde ich super, egal ob Premium oder nicht, jeder hat die Wahl. Keiner ist zum zuschauen verbannt!

    Bei der Einschränkung auf einen Bot beispielsweise:
    Wenn zwei Personen, komplett jeglicher Vernunft, lern-resistent sind: ja, dann schauen sie ohne Re-Join den Bots zu.

    Für Deathmatch gibt es DM-Server, für "Rumgeballere" generell andere Spiele, beispielsweise HL aus 1998 (siehe hier: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life) oder den diversen Nachfolgern.

    Nur mal als Hinweis von meiner Seite:
    Ich spiele HL seit 1998 und ich war, trotz aller Bemühungen, einfach viel zu langsam! Ob es an mein Können oder Reaktionsvermögen, auch aufgrund "56k-Modem" lag, sei mal dahin gestellt. Studenten hatten für solche "Opfer" eben "COUNTERSTRIKE" programmiert, was dann später eine große Community fand. Pauschal TEAM1 vs TEAM2, eben kein wildes "Rumgeballere mit Re-Join in 1 Sekunde"

    VG
    Andreas

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